strange thing, m8 - i love living in moscow and would prefer staying here than moving to Paris, just as an example.
it's feeling life which drives me look forward to come back home to moscow each time i'm far away..

by the way, u look trying to feel yourself higher than all those who you think are the same as you were. but you were not)
that stinks, pal

Макс_Бешеный, i actually dunno whether he does or not, i mentioned the way he explained Puzyakina chick's behavior ONLY.
cheers.

flat-out, i agree :)
cheers

To be quite honest, I wouldn't want to live in Paris either.

Every city has a different feel to it, and you either love it or you don't.

Paris is a great cultural capital, but to me everything is very small, cars, buildings, rooms, people are friendly enough, but just barely - they tolerate you, nothing more...vacationing there is as much as I could handle.

Moscow is different - on one side you see the richest city in Russia, one the other - it's just as poor as any other city in Russian federation.

What I disliked the most about Moscow - remember this is just my opinion, nothing more, is the feel of it.

Looking at the faces - everyone is tense, they avoid any eye-contact, everything is fast-paced, everyone has a grim expression on their face - even the most beautiful girls would never smile, lips are tucked and shut.

None of the roads are capable of handling as many cars as Moscow has, so there is ALWAYS traffice - noone, and I do mean NOONE follows any rules of driving, the only thing that's worse then driving in Moscow is driving in Napoli.....Italians are even crazier.

You do have to admit that Moscovites have an attitude problem - not all of them, may be not most, but many.

They hate immigrants, yet, it is because of those immigrants Moscow has become a great city like it is today.

Most of the Russians and non-Russians, migrated to Moscow during the Mongols rule. They wanted to get away from them and they did - Mongols horses simply couldn't handle that long of ride. They simply stopped short of Moscow and never invaded it.

If you look at the Moscow's population before and after Mongol rule - you can see what I'm talking about.

For some cities the effects were the opposite - look at Vladimir, that city was once the greatest in Russia, and now - it's barely on a map. Vladimir's location allowed for it to be invaded easily from the east.

Макс_Бешеный - why are you here?

Dude, go back to your little pathetic "unassimilated" live.

You say "assimilated" like it's a bad word. The truth is everyone, everyone gets assimilated in one way or the other.

Either you accept the surround society as your own take the best for that society and give everything that you can to that society or you don't.

Either you got nothing new to give to that society (as in your case for example), or you don't want to give anything back to that society and simple take and nothing more - in that case you're nothing but a parasite.

Klop na zhope proretaliata.

DarkMagician, u r rite in some places within yer "thoughts", otherwise u r wrong. But I won't criticize ya, ther's no need nor challenge in that.

P.S. Helluva write in standard English language =)

Исходное сообщение Макс_Бешеный

wrong i know many unassimilated (c) people who love their native countries and who continue to respect their customs they shall never became assimilants and never betray their native country
-> The most interesting thing is that I didn't give my native patria away for some stupid Canada and I still got flushed. This jerks shits as he talks, goddamn it! I love Russia, I did n I always will, but that doesn't mean that I should start blaspheming other countries as if they were worse.

All the countries r the same n e way...

i (and many others on this site) will prefer the second taking the first choice means betraying your own country
-> Way 2 talk, Sir Nice-HOLLANDIAN-Ass =)

даже писать по-русски разучились мой дорогой (надо писать "проЛетаРиата") скоро пойдете "на съедение" вальсу тот за орфографию трясецца как будто это ему что-то дает
-> На остальное забьём, но since сей кусок поста про меня, скажу вот что. Орфографию надо уважать, но не сравнивай её и типографические опечатки (например "ы" заместо "в" т.к. на клаве обе буквы расположены рядом). А мне даёт не сама она, а смысл написанного человеком. А поскольку "человек" не удосуживается даже запятых с точками поставить, смысл еле виден. Это явное воздействие голландского, должен заметить.

На спор что жил бы ты ща в России - тыб этим не занималсо. Патамуша доступа к инету по карточкам бы не хватило гыгы =)

Короче go find yerself, Max Well-Smart (т.е. Макс Сильно-Жгучий-в-зад =) )

Дурик, DarkMagician сей камень катит на тебя... Нечего было злить мага =)

You did make yourself perfectly clear:

You've got NOTHING to say, because you have done NOTHING for Russia, and because deep inside your little tiny brain you know that I am right.

Talking shit doesn't make you a "patriot" - auctions make you a "patriot" and you have NONE.

And what lies did I have in my post? I simply asked a question to which you have no answer for......

Game, set, match, you're done.

Mess with best, die like the rest....

And another thing - you're in my journal, I was never in yours.

So who is bothering whom?

гыгыгы хи вонт ансуер. Энд синс ю джаст игнор ме, ай сюппоз зыс уыл би зе лэйтест коммент ин зат пост, вонт ит?

О май гад! ИТ сынкс АЙ эм крейзи! Дурик, ду нот мейк ми твёрл ин фанни торпор, зе риал крэйзи уан хир из ю, энд ОНЛИ ю.

Max, ca va? =)

DarkMagician, i'm sorry i've not even looked through all that shit above (you know what i mean), pls just let me drop a line of comments on your reply to me)

i really have no idea why you applied to middle ages speaking of today Moscow and speaking of the Muscovites attitude and character. i'll try to explain why as there are two things regarding worth mentioning.

first is the history.
i used to do a university research related to the ancient history of Russia and Mongols in particular and the only thing which came clear on the issue is the feel of being hopelessly robbed: everything which we have been taught of Russian history occurred to be just a set of stories with all the facts varied depending on the need of governing decision-makers throughout all times. in this connection i cannot apply here to any "facts" against yours as further history "lessons" would be less than adequate, sorry. i'd prefer investigate this further without any senseless airquakes aka "kitchen argue")

second is immigrants.
as any other large city Moscow is the place where money is accumulated, hence any wealth-minded person will climb to higher places. this is what they call urbanization.
in the meanwhile, still exists a city-life, i mean each city has its own traditions and character of the people residing it, which actually compiles its mentality and unity. and the longer a city lives and keeps growing, the more sophisticated become its characteristics. and the CITYzens become much more mixed in each other than it may seem to you.

the thing you call immigrant hate is more the insulted feeling than a hate. of course you can keep your opinion but please be advised, immigrants are appreciated in Moscow. all those who work and leave peacefully and let work and leave others cannot be hated with no reason just because they came from abroad or even just from some other city. do you really believe they can? i hope not as it would be childish and simply silly.

we here live in one multi-national state and in one miniature state-city Moscow at the same time. and it's our home. the thing you call hate is a feeling of offence caused by an unbidden guest shitting in the middle of our room. if one is going to stay in a place for long time one must respect the way of life in that place. if not, that person is free to look for another place which will suite 100 per cent. this is the assimilation phenomenon you mentioned somewhere before.
actually that's all i can tell you about the feeling you so much dislike in Muscovites.

now please let me get back to my work)

Sorry I am taking you away from your work. :)

Do you really think "immigrants are appreciated in Moscow"?

Only wealthy immigrants are apperciated in Moscow and only those types of people are welcomed in Moscow.

Case in point: How hard is it for a regular person from Kazan' (for example) to move to Moscow and live there legally?

If he/she doesn't have the $ to buy the house, how easy it for him/her to get all the necessary paperwork ("propiska")?

And by getting all the necessary documents I mean Legal documents, if you have the $ you can easily get a fake one.

And we both know that without "propiska" you cannot work legally in Moscow.

Now compare this "freedom" to the USA, for example, or France, or any other Western Country.

Anyone can move to any city they wish, no special documents needed. Which way incourages immigration more?

DarkMagician, i must say i'm surprised! i thought you were talking about people attitude to immigrants. but now i see you just compared different legal systems.
it's ok then, i have no questions).

i can only add that i personally do appreciate any immigrant, any person who does not interfere in my peaceful life and i can say the same about my friends' and colleagues' attitude.

Зашибись... какие глубокие мысли))) Ну спасибки и на том..что мы не глупые женщины..и имели честь иметь свои мечты... с Divo_Divnoe_ Хотя судить о том..сбылись они..али нет..никто не может... ибо о своих местах..знали только мы...но видимо вам виднее))))

flat-out, Весьма толково сказано!!!!!!!

DarkMagician, А вот вы ему ответили очередную глупость... если бы в Москве было так плохо и невозможно жить приезжим..неучто бы люди сюда ехали? Или они полные дебилы?

Пузякина, что именно?
признаюсь, я немного (поверхностно) ознакомился с вашими комментариями и теряюсь в догадках о том, что вы считаете толковым.

I must say I'm very impressed that you understand English so well, Puzyakina. Have to give credit where the credit is due, good job.

As for Moscow - I was comparing Moscow to Western Cities, how many thousands of people have immigrated from Paris, London, Berlin, New York, Los Angeles to Moscow in the past 2-3 years?

Would you say more people immigrated to those cities from Moscow, or the other way around?

Compared to other Russian cities (with the exclusion of St. Petersburg) Moscow is heaven, but compared to other major Western Cities, Moscow doesn't measure up.

If Moscow the best of the worst - it's not something to be proud of.

DarkMagician, i do not agree that there could be the best city in the world or the worst one. it reminds me of the fascist idea of the golden billion and all the rest.

i just love the place where i live and the people i get in touch with.
moreover, i love my language, the Russian language.

and i'm prouid of what i can do here in Moscow for myself, my family and the people i'm proud of being acquainted with.

i hope my words didn't seem to you too stereotyped.

rgds,
RU

DarkMagician,

Да нельзя сравнивать Москву с другими столицами мира..как вы этого не понимаете?
В Москву сейчас стекается миграция из 15 стран... не в Россиию...а именно в Москву...в один город... это очень сложно... и плюс из городов России...а Россия очень большая...

flat-out, Он просто не понимает ситуации...в России... ведь люди в Москву стекаются не потому что все остальные города говно...а потому что тут можно заработать деньги...Зачастую очень многие приезжают сюда работать, что бы отправить деньги своим семьям...
И его возмущением является регистрация в Москве... я уже устала объяснять, что это временная мера..обусловленная обстоятельством...если в других городах у людей будет возможность достойно жить, то многие даже в мыслях не будут иметь ехать в Москву...
Но с другой стороны он не понимает...почему Москвичи хотят что бы приезжие соблюдлали традиции данного города...и правила данного города... В каждом городе есть свои особенности...и с ними стоит считаться..особенно если это столица...

Hmm...

Why can't I compare Moscow to New York, Los Angeles, Paris? Immigration to New York comes from alot more then just 15 countries, they come from Africa, Asia, Latin America, South America, Eastern Europe....

How is that different?

How's Moscow different from Paris? Did you know that Paris has the highest Muslim population of ANY other European capital city?

Where do you think they came from? Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe....

Moscow is not the only city facing Immigration problem - there are many cities who's immgiration problem is ALOT worse.....

DarkMagician, Вы были в Москве? Когда? Если были конечно

DarkMagician, tell me how can you compare and match different cultures, west and east, two different systems - the western sys of common oportunities and the russian post-soviet "capitalism", different languages (is english harder than russian?) and, and, and?...

For the past five years I went to Moscow EVERY single year on business. Each time I spent anywhere from a week to a month living in Moscow. 3 times in the Summer, twice in the fall.

Does that answer your question?

How many times have you been to the United States in the past 5 years, or Paris, or Berlin, or London and how long did you stay?

As for comparing - what do cultures and languages have to do with the GNP (Gross National Product), or Capita per person.

Every single year economic council compares every country based on their economic conditions - why can't I?

DarkMagician, К кому относится данный вопрос?

Пузякина, вам ответили на ваш вопрос по поводу визитов в Россию, уважаемая.

DarkMagician, and what does human attitude have to do with the peculiarities and specifics of state development?
what do you know about geopolitics and the diversity of cultures and development conditions?

equalization of economies and systems is just a cover for forcing quite particular interest of a number of nations, not more.
of course, the higher the GDP the better life is, but what do you know of the means of achieving it?

flat-out

Economic conditions have alot to do with the society we live in, and the society we live in affects as - human beings.

Case in point: A human being is going to take care of his/her most pressing needs first - hunger, cover over his/her head, safety and security and only then will start to think about all the highest intellectual things.

Culture is like anything else in this contantly evolving, and economic conditions play an important part in defining the culture and world around us.

Look at Africa - how many scientists/artists/musicians do you know that came out from the poor African Cultures. They certainly have the capability- they are human, but they simply can never get to the level where they have the means to explore and develop their talents and education.

Of course Russia is much better off then any of those countries, but the same rule applies here. If someone is contantly thinking about how to get the money to feed his/her family tomorrow, do you think he'll think about anything else besides that?

That's the main reason why alot of Russian people are so hostile towards immigrants - unhappy people don't usually develop good attitudes towards people.

DarkMagician, do you really believe in the life principles which are supposed to be good for all? I mean all those "Democracy" principles planted by the United States (in particular) all over the world. "Live this way" and "live that way"..

If those principles had really become the same for all, the world would have gone into a real mess, with the only "order-enforcing axis" - the USA.

What I say is that all the nations have had their own naturally unique development conditions DIFFERENT from all others'. And the life we live is very much variable depending on those conditions.
What the USA have been putting into practice for more than a century now is making the rest of the world the sphere of its national interests, aka a means of earning its living.
I do not blame anyone in the United States as the way You make it deserves undoubted respect. Unfortunately it's the only feasible way of behaving to stay a strong and relatively wealthy nation nowadays.

Исходное сообщение flat-out
DarkMagician, do you really believe in the life principles which are supposed to be good for all? I mean all those "Democracy" principles planted by the United States (in particular) all over the world. "Live this way" and "live that way"..

If those principles had really become the same for all, the world would have gone into a real mess, with the only "order-enforcing axis" - the USA.

What I say is that all the nations have had their own naturally unique development conditions DIFFERENT from all others'. And the life we live is very much variable depending on those conditions.
What the USA have been putting into practice for more than a century now is making the rest of the world the sphere of its national interests, aka a means of earning its living.
I do not blame anyone in the United States as the way You make it deserves undoubted respect. Unfortunately it's the only feasible way of behaving to stay a strong and relatively wealthy nation nowadays.

See my latest entry in the journal - I very much agree with your opinion. However I do not think USA wants other countries to be a cetain way, it simply wants to make the best possible life for itself and for that to happen other countries have to play along. Wether they want to or not, that's another question.

USA wants what's best for USA only, just as any other country in the world....including Russia.