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Help needed...sort of 19-09-2009 08:48 к комментариям - к полной версии - понравилось!


[показать]We had to read "A Rose for Emily" for today's English assignment, which is a pretty interesting, although somewhat creepy, short story by William Faulkner. In a few words, it is about a woman who had a pretty miserable life and ended up poisoning her lover and leaving him rot in her house for the next ten years. This is an online class, so I have to read responses of all the classmates. Having just looked through most of them, I was surprised to find out that the majority of the class members, for some reason, came to a conclusion that woman's lover was gay.

Because of the wording of one sentence, I can see why some of my classmates could think so, but, in my opinion, their understanding of this only sentence, which presumably implies guy's homosexuality, is wrong. So, since, from what I can tell from their writing, most of the people in my class are pretty dumb :)), I'd like to hear your opinion about it. I understand that it is difficult to judge from the sentence that is taken out of context, but I pinky swear that nothing else in the story is relevant to the discussion. Below is a sentence and then reasoning (as written in response to other student's comment) that led me to conclude that the narrator has never said anything about the character's sexuality.

Then we said, "She will persuade him yet," because Homer himself had remarked -- he liked men, and it was known that he drank with the younger men in the Elks' Club -- that he was not a marrying man.

As we know, rules of punctuation say that dashes let us interrupt a sentence's structure to add information. Consequently, the text surrounded by dashes can be removed from the sentence without affecting its meaning in any serious way. If, in the sentence above, one takes into account only the information outside of dashes, he or she will read:
(1)"...Homer had himself had remarked that he was not a marrying man."

If one rewrites the part within dashes as a separate sentence after thet, he or she will get:
(2)"He liked men, and it was known that he drank with the younger men in the Elks' Club."

There is no evidence whatsoever in the sentence #1 about Homer being gay. As far as the second sentence is concerned, while in context of our time "to like men" would, indeed, hint at the sexual orientation of the individual, it is doubtful that in 1930, when the story was first published, this wording was used in the same way as today. Back then, "to like men" could just as easily mean "to like to hang out with men", which, in my opinion, is much more likely. Thus, I believe that the only thing that the narrator meant to say by adding this extra information is that Homer was a very sociable guy, he liked to spend time with other men, and during such get-togethers he would sometimes mention that he was not a marrying kind.

Does this reasoning make sense to you? If you don't agree, please, elaborate :)...and please remember that nowhere else in the text is even a slightest hint, mentioning, or questioning of Homer's sexual orientation.
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Комментарии (8):
-Alania- 19-09-2009-10:15 удалить
не думаю что произведение которое было опубликовано в 30х годах будет упоминать о геях, думаю в то время мало кто знал о гомосексуальных отношениях, во вторых сюжет совсем не о том ведь. мне кажется никто в то время не понял о чем вообwе говорится, даже если бы там было написано "gay" я бы скорее перевела его значение как 'веселыi' или что то в етом духе.
Roksolana 19-09-2009-11:20 удалить
I think that the phrase "not a marrying man" means not that he is not a kind of men who marry at all, but that he isn't married AT THIS MOMENT.
And the fact that information that he liked to "hang out" with other guys and mentioning that "he's not marrying" going close simpled the understanding of that for your classmates, they didn't even try to think deeply to understand the real sense.
CrimeanGurl 19-09-2009-19:08 удалить
Roksolana, actually, "not a marrying man" does mean that he was not planning to marry at all...this is a well-known idiom that is used quite often to describe the kind of person who is more than happy to remain single (also, "not a marrying kind" if one does not want to specify gender).

I do, however, agree about my classmates just jumping into conclusion as soon as they saw "to like men" and "not a marrying man" together. It so weird that two seemingly harmless phrases taken out of context could be used to make a person gay. With this being said, my classmates are not the only ones who think so, there are plenty of discussions online about Homer's sexuality.
telegraph_ave 20-09-2009-06:18 удалить
мне кажется, что гомосексуальность просто достаточно популярная и изъезженная сейчас тема. а еще мне кажется, что люди в твоем классе,пришедшие к выводу о гомосексуальности главного героя, просто не потрудились подумать глубже и немного выйти за рамки того что приходит первым на ум из-за вышеупомянутой изъезженности))
CrimeanGurl 20-09-2009-06:26 удалить
telegraph_ave, lol, это точно, сильно долго над своими ответами в классе никто вообще не думает...на данный момен тем не менее мои аргументы никого из одноклассников не убедили...я же, ради спортивного интереса и чтобы еще раз убедиться в своей правоте, понаходила этот рассказ на испанском, французском, русском, и ни в одном переводе не нашло вообще никакого намека на сексуальную ориентацию героя. В русском переводе, например, просто говорится "… потому что сам Гомер за стойкой (он любил мужскую компанию и, как мы знали, бражничал с молодежью в Клубе Лосей), хвастался, что он убежденный холостяк." Именно так я бы и сама перевела это предложение.
CrimeanGurl 20-09-2009-06:29 удалить
venenalla, именно этот аргумент и мне на ум пришел...в то время о гомосексуализме вообще никто не думал, так с какого перегара автор бы стал подкидывать столь завуалированные намек, который в любом случае не был бы понятен большеству читателей.
oh... that's such a common thing I guess - in my English class if one person is getting "stuck" with some kind of similar idea, fixates on something - a lot of people follow. And I usually find myself either contradicting or just simply asking Where That is coming from... I can't understand their interpretation and all those "out of the blue" ideas :))
ooops, I guess I need to take a break, I can't explain myself clearly now :)))
Ne znaju 4to bi ja dejstvitelno podumala pro4itav etot rasskaz i v 4astnosti eto predlozenie. No posle tvoej podvodki, pro4itav predlozenie ja ponjala tak 4to etot muz4ina prosto ljubil provoditj vremja s parnjami i ne bil muz4inoj sozdannim dlja braka. A molodimi dumaju potomu 4to on tem samim pitalsja prodlitj i sebe molodostj.


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